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	<title>Comments on: A Different Take on the Christmas Wars</title>
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	<link>http://www.newreformationpress.com/blog/2008/12/22/a-different-take-on-the-christmas-wars-2/</link>
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		<title>By: steve martin</title>
		<link>http://www.newreformationpress.com/blog/2008/12/22/a-different-take-on-the-christmas-wars-2/#comment-231</link>
		<dc:creator>steve martin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 07:36:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Great post, Pat!

I agree with you wholeheartedly.

That we celebrate and give to each other and have new born opportunity to witness to Christ Jesus is just wonderful!

And this time (Christmastime) does help a lot of people in ways which many of us could never imagine. So many people in those &quot;sweat shops&quot; have a far better life that they have that job. To not but the things that they make (at whatever wage) would deprive them of needed income. In many instances it&#039;s that job...or no job. Ususll in places like that, things gradually improve and their lot in life improves as well. We have seen this phenomenon in many 3rd world countries that are now becoming economic powerhouses , such as China and India (and it is a long list).

I love Christmas, it is just great!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, Pat!</p>
<p>I agree with you wholeheartedly.</p>
<p>That we celebrate and give to each other and have new born opportunity to witness to Christ Jesus is just wonderful!</p>
<p>And this time (Christmastime) does help a lot of people in ways which many of us could never imagine. So many people in those &#8220;sweat shops&#8221; have a far better life that they have that job. To not but the things that they make (at whatever wage) would deprive them of needed income. In many instances it&#8217;s that job&#8230;or no job. Ususll in places like that, things gradually improve and their lot in life improves as well. We have seen this phenomenon in many 3rd world countries that are now becoming economic powerhouses , such as China and India (and it is a long list).</p>
<p>I love Christmas, it is just great!</p>
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		<title>By: Pastor Chad</title>
		<link>http://www.newreformationpress.com/blog/2008/12/22/a-different-take-on-the-christmas-wars-2/#comment-230</link>
		<dc:creator>Pastor Chad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 14:38:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newreformationpress.com/blog/?p=275#comment-230</guid>
		<description>I do participate in some of these things, but only because if I did not it would be perceived that I did not love my family. 

What I do not understand, or appreciate, is that expressions of our love have been attached to these &#039;things&#039;. If I do not get a gift for my spouse, I do not love her. Even though it may be more financially responsible to NOT get her something. No, I do not research everything I purchase, but I do try to be responsible. Much of what I purchase is made locally, or even hand made. A lot of what I give has specific meaning from me to that person (often made by myself).

I guess what I am objecting to is the manner in which the Christmas celebration has gotten away from true expressions of love. If we love someone, we have to give them something, or so the culture tells us. 

Since when is it necessary to have money to celebrate Christmas; the birth of Christ who came with nothing but himself? 

Here I am not just talking about the Church or Christians. So many people go into so much debt in order to &#039;prove their love&#039; for others that it severely hampers their financial futures. 

I do not think this is sacrificial giving. 

It is not showing someone else your love. 

It seems more like an effort to purchase another&#039;s love.

This is, I am afraid, more the message of Christmas that people understand, and it is this message that I am against. 

Loving sacrificially does not mean buying them lots of things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do participate in some of these things, but only because if I did not it would be perceived that I did not love my family. </p>
<p>What I do not understand, or appreciate, is that expressions of our love have been attached to these &#8216;things&#8217;. If I do not get a gift for my spouse, I do not love her. Even though it may be more financially responsible to NOT get her something. No, I do not research everything I purchase, but I do try to be responsible. Much of what I purchase is made locally, or even hand made. A lot of what I give has specific meaning from me to that person (often made by myself).</p>
<p>I guess what I am objecting to is the manner in which the Christmas celebration has gotten away from true expressions of love. If we love someone, we have to give them something, or so the culture tells us. </p>
<p>Since when is it necessary to have money to celebrate Christmas; the birth of Christ who came with nothing but himself? </p>
<p>Here I am not just talking about the Church or Christians. So many people go into so much debt in order to &#8216;prove their love&#8217; for others that it severely hampers their financial futures. </p>
<p>I do not think this is sacrificial giving. </p>
<p>It is not showing someone else your love. </p>
<p>It seems more like an effort to purchase another&#8217;s love.</p>
<p>This is, I am afraid, more the message of Christmas that people understand, and it is this message that I am against. </p>
<p>Loving sacrificially does not mean buying them lots of things.</p>
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		<title>By: Pat Kyle</title>
		<link>http://www.newreformationpress.com/blog/2008/12/22/a-different-take-on-the-christmas-wars-2/#comment-229</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat Kyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 09:02:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newreformationpress.com/blog/?p=275#comment-229</guid>
		<description>Chad,

Thank you for the thoughtful reply.  A couple of things I would like to point out.

Although I used the word &quot;we&quot; in the opening paragraph, it is meant as a generic &#039;we&#039; referring to our culture at large. I was not advocating that Christians celebrate the Holiday in a slavish imitation of the worst parts of our culture.  My point was that while many Christians are alarmed by the perceived &quot;abuse&quot; of Christmas, God is working subversively in such a way that even His enemies sing His praises and  those who don&#039;t know Him receive good gifts because of Him.

Am I to understand from your comments that you do not participate in any of the common Christmas traditions? No gifts for family or friends? No Christmas trees or decorations? No Holiday meals with loved ones?  No days off work?  

Do you research EVERYTHING you purchase to insure that it doesn&#039;t benefit the wicked and contribute to the oppression of the poor in a far away land?

I agree that  giving to insure clean water and food, and create a sustainable economy and good jobs is a noble and Christian thing to do. However I do not think our sacrificial giving should be confined to just these types of things.  What about our spouses and children and parents? Aren&#039;t we commanded to love them sacrificially too? (And no, I don&#039;t mean jewelry and toys and vacations.)

Peace</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chad,</p>
<p>Thank you for the thoughtful reply.  A couple of things I would like to point out.</p>
<p>Although I used the word &#8220;we&#8221; in the opening paragraph, it is meant as a generic &#8216;we&#8217; referring to our culture at large. I was not advocating that Christians celebrate the Holiday in a slavish imitation of the worst parts of our culture.  My point was that while many Christians are alarmed by the perceived &#8220;abuse&#8221; of Christmas, God is working subversively in such a way that even His enemies sing His praises and  those who don&#8217;t know Him receive good gifts because of Him.</p>
<p>Am I to understand from your comments that you do not participate in any of the common Christmas traditions? No gifts for family or friends? No Christmas trees or decorations? No Holiday meals with loved ones?  No days off work?  </p>
<p>Do you research EVERYTHING you purchase to insure that it doesn&#8217;t benefit the wicked and contribute to the oppression of the poor in a far away land?</p>
<p>I agree that  giving to insure clean water and food, and create a sustainable economy and good jobs is a noble and Christian thing to do. However I do not think our sacrificial giving should be confined to just these types of things.  What about our spouses and children and parents? Aren&#8217;t we commanded to love them sacrificially too? (And no, I don&#8217;t mean jewelry and toys and vacations.)</p>
<p>Peace</p>
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		<title>By: Pastor Chad</title>
		<link>http://www.newreformationpress.com/blog/2008/12/22/a-different-take-on-the-christmas-wars-2/#comment-227</link>
		<dc:creator>Pastor Chad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 20:34:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newreformationpress.com/blog/?p=275#comment-227</guid>
		<description>While I understand what you are saying, I do not think that Christians participating in the Christmas season the way the world does is correct. Spending so much money on things for people that already have everything is not what Jesus told us to do. We are to give to the least of these, not the richest (remember us in the Western world are amazingly rich compared to most of the world). I do not want my gift to trickled down to the those in other countries who work in sweat shops so the corporations can make huge amounts of profit. 

I want to give my gift so they can have clean water to drink, so they can have food to eat, so they have a fulfilling job with a future and hope. These are what I want to do with my sacrificial giving. 

This is, I think, what Christians are called to do with their sacrificial giving. 

So while I understand that there is a benefit to having Christmas celebrated AT ALL in the secular/wider culture. That does not mean that Christians should celebrate it the same way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I understand what you are saying, I do not think that Christians participating in the Christmas season the way the world does is correct. Spending so much money on things for people that already have everything is not what Jesus told us to do. We are to give to the least of these, not the richest (remember us in the Western world are amazingly rich compared to most of the world). I do not want my gift to trickled down to the those in other countries who work in sweat shops so the corporations can make huge amounts of profit. </p>
<p>I want to give my gift so they can have clean water to drink, so they can have food to eat, so they have a fulfilling job with a future and hope. These are what I want to do with my sacrificial giving. </p>
<p>This is, I think, what Christians are called to do with their sacrificial giving. </p>
<p>So while I understand that there is a benefit to having Christmas celebrated AT ALL in the secular/wider culture. That does not mean that Christians should celebrate it the same way.</p>
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