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	<title>Comments on: Are We Weak on Sanctification? Judge for Yourself.</title>
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	<link>http://www.newreformationpress.com/blog/2009/08/24/are-we-weak-on-sanctification-judge-for-yourself/</link>
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		<title>By: Steve Byrnes</title>
		<link>http://www.newreformationpress.com/blog/2009/08/24/are-we-weak-on-sanctification-judge-for-yourself/#comment-513</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Byrnes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 00:10:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;m glad Steve posted his comments here. It doesn&#039;t look like Pr. McCain has moderated his reply yet. Thanks Steve. Oh, and by the way, mine wasn&#039;t posted either. Oh well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m glad Steve posted his comments here. It doesn&#8217;t look like Pr. McCain has moderated his reply yet. Thanks Steve. Oh, and by the way, mine wasn&#8217;t posted either. Oh well.</p>
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		<title>By: Ted R</title>
		<link>http://www.newreformationpress.com/blog/2009/08/24/are-we-weak-on-sanctification-judge-for-yourself/#comment-511</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:07:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newreformationpress.com/blog/?p=830#comment-511</guid>
		<description>Steve,

Thank you for adding your comment to our blog as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve,</p>
<p>Thank you for adding your comment to our blog as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Parks</title>
		<link>http://www.newreformationpress.com/blog/2009/08/24/are-we-weak-on-sanctification-judge-for-yourself/#comment-510</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Parks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 18:02:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newreformationpress.com/blog/?p=830#comment-510</guid>
		<description>I posted my thoughts on Pr. McCain&#039;s blog. Here it is in case you&#039;re interested...
 
Pastor McCain, 

While I most certainly appreciate your concern, I respectfully submit that you may be missing the mark here. Both parties (you and New Reformation Press) are approaching the shirt with two different audiences in mind. You have in mind secure sinners who care nothing for the law. They have in mind terrified sinners who have been crushed by the law. Your fear is that NRP is telling the Agricolas of the world that all is fine and dandy. I&#039;m sure that is the last thing they would want to do. The fear of NRP, however, is that you may be telling the sinful woman who washed our Lord&#039;s feet with tears to stop being so lazy, cease her blubbering, get up, and keep the commandments. That, of course, is the last thing you would want to do. 

NRP is geared toward reaching evangelicals and the unchurched with solid reformation theology. I&#039;m guessing that people who wear the shirt, such as Pastor Beisel&#039;s wife, have the same targets in mind. As you know, evangelicals are given a steady diet of law preaching with little to no gospel. Likewise, the unchurched generally perceive Christianity as a strict law-based religion (i.e., &#039;be a good person and you get to heaven&#039;). To these folks, New Reformation Press seeks to bring the gospel in all of its saving sweetness without heaping further condemnation of the law upon them. In this, they simply mirror the pastoral approach of Luther, who did the same to those who had been crushed under the papacy. His word to terrified sinners under the papacy was nothing but grace and mercy, his word to antinomians was law and obedience. In which camp do you think most evangelicals find themselves?

The bottom line is that slogans, all slogans, are open to misinterpretation/misrepresentation. People misrepresented the biblical teaching of salvation by faith apart from the works of the law but I wouldn&#039;t object to someone printing Romans 3:28 on a t-shirt. People misrepresented the reformation teaching of justification by grace alone through faith alone in the person and work of Christ alone but that doesn&#039;t mean we should rail against those who use those slogans on reformation paraphernalia. People have abused Luther&#039;s advice to Melanchthon to &#039;sin boldly&#039; or that we are &#039;simul iustus et peccator&#039; but that doesn&#039;t mean that Luther wasn&#039;t correct. 

Even if it were to be switched to the slogan you suggested (&quot;When I am Weak, then I am Strong&quot;) I suspect people would still get bent out of shape over it (despite the fact that it&#039;s a quote from Scripture). I can see it now: &quot;Well, you&#039;re just encouraging people to be weak so they can be strong! That is a creeping antinomianism which allows for people to rest in their weakness! Doesn&#039;t Scripture call us to be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might (Ephesians 6:10)!?&quot; 

At any rate, your very post, ironically, vindicates New Reformation Press. That t-shirt was designed to get folks thinking and talking about the role of Christ in salvation and the role of good works in a believer&#039;s life, and as all of this discussion proves, it&#039;s done just that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I posted my thoughts on Pr. McCain&#8217;s blog. Here it is in case you&#8217;re interested&#8230;</p>
<p>Pastor McCain, </p>
<p>While I most certainly appreciate your concern, I respectfully submit that you may be missing the mark here. Both parties (you and New Reformation Press) are approaching the shirt with two different audiences in mind. You have in mind secure sinners who care nothing for the law. They have in mind terrified sinners who have been crushed by the law. Your fear is that NRP is telling the Agricolas of the world that all is fine and dandy. I&#8217;m sure that is the last thing they would want to do. The fear of NRP, however, is that you may be telling the sinful woman who washed our Lord&#8217;s feet with tears to stop being so lazy, cease her blubbering, get up, and keep the commandments. That, of course, is the last thing you would want to do. </p>
<p>NRP is geared toward reaching evangelicals and the unchurched with solid reformation theology. I&#8217;m guessing that people who wear the shirt, such as Pastor Beisel&#8217;s wife, have the same targets in mind. As you know, evangelicals are given a steady diet of law preaching with little to no gospel. Likewise, the unchurched generally perceive Christianity as a strict law-based religion (i.e., &#8216;be a good person and you get to heaven&#8217;). To these folks, New Reformation Press seeks to bring the gospel in all of its saving sweetness without heaping further condemnation of the law upon them. In this, they simply mirror the pastoral approach of Luther, who did the same to those who had been crushed under the papacy. His word to terrified sinners under the papacy was nothing but grace and mercy, his word to antinomians was law and obedience. In which camp do you think most evangelicals find themselves?</p>
<p>The bottom line is that slogans, all slogans, are open to misinterpretation/misrepresentation. People misrepresented the biblical teaching of salvation by faith apart from the works of the law but I wouldn&#8217;t object to someone printing Romans 3:28 on a t-shirt. People misrepresented the reformation teaching of justification by grace alone through faith alone in the person and work of Christ alone but that doesn&#8217;t mean we should rail against those who use those slogans on reformation paraphernalia. People have abused Luther&#8217;s advice to Melanchthon to &#8216;sin boldly&#8217; or that we are &#8216;simul iustus et peccator&#8217; but that doesn&#8217;t mean that Luther wasn&#8217;t correct. </p>
<p>Even if it were to be switched to the slogan you suggested (&#8220;When I am Weak, then I am Strong&#8221;) I suspect people would still get bent out of shape over it (despite the fact that it&#8217;s a quote from Scripture). I can see it now: &#8220;Well, you&#8217;re just encouraging people to be weak so they can be strong! That is a creeping antinomianism which allows for people to rest in their weakness! Doesn&#8217;t Scripture call us to be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might (Ephesians 6:10)!?&#8221; </p>
<p>At any rate, your very post, ironically, vindicates New Reformation Press. That t-shirt was designed to get folks thinking and talking about the role of Christ in salvation and the role of good works in a believer&#8217;s life, and as all of this discussion proves, it&#8217;s done just that.</p>
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		<title>By: Ted R</title>
		<link>http://www.newreformationpress.com/blog/2009/08/24/are-we-weak-on-sanctification-judge-for-yourself/#comment-508</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:42:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newreformationpress.com/blog/?p=830#comment-508</guid>
		<description>Darren,

Thanks for the comment.  One of the things we run in to on a regular basis in Lutheran circles is people not understanding their audience and what their position may be on the concept of sanctification.  Members of non-Lutheran denominations can have very different views on sanctification than those who&#039;ve grown up in Lutheranism.

Of course, we here at NRP are Lutheran, but MOST of our conversations are with outsiders to Lutheranism, or converts to Lutheranism, and I can tell you from such regular experience that the way &quot;Weak On Sanctification&quot; is being framed by some Lutherans such as Pastor McCain is extremely different from the views of many outsiders to Lutheranism.

As an interesting side note, did you know that the phrase &quot;weak on sanctification&quot; is a Wesleyan creation made to help nudge people towards self-sanctification through good works?  We are, of course, completely in disagreement with such a position, and love poking fun at such a concept with the phrase designed to PROMOTE such an idea.

I&#039;d like to write a more comprehensive blog entry on the concept of sanctification, the origins of &quot;weak on sanctification&quot; and Lutheranism and what we hold to here at NRP.  But for now, I&#039;ll just say that we&#039;ve never held anything different than that Christ IS our sanctification.  With our many conversations with non-Lutherans we understand that there&#039;s a plague of poor teaching out there regarding sanctification and we think there are myriad ways to enter discussions to help teach the Lutheran position on the subject.  Our shirt is just one playful way to set up the conversation.

The shirt is highly offensive to some and incredibly comforting to others.  And if anyone reading this doesn&#039;t know why a shirt saying &quot;Weak On Sanctification&quot; may be comforting, only endearing them to Lutheranism even more, I would invite you to actually talk to a few of them to find out why.  When was the last time you did so?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Darren,</p>
<p>Thanks for the comment.  One of the things we run in to on a regular basis in Lutheran circles is people not understanding their audience and what their position may be on the concept of sanctification.  Members of non-Lutheran denominations can have very different views on sanctification than those who&#8217;ve grown up in Lutheranism.</p>
<p>Of course, we here at NRP are Lutheran, but MOST of our conversations are with outsiders to Lutheranism, or converts to Lutheranism, and I can tell you from such regular experience that the way &#8220;Weak On Sanctification&#8221; is being framed by some Lutherans such as Pastor McCain is extremely different from the views of many outsiders to Lutheranism.</p>
<p>As an interesting side note, did you know that the phrase &#8220;weak on sanctification&#8221; is a Wesleyan creation made to help nudge people towards self-sanctification through good works?  We are, of course, completely in disagreement with such a position, and love poking fun at such a concept with the phrase designed to PROMOTE such an idea.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d like to write a more comprehensive blog entry on the concept of sanctification, the origins of &#8220;weak on sanctification&#8221; and Lutheranism and what we hold to here at NRP.  But for now, I&#8217;ll just say that we&#8217;ve never held anything different than that Christ IS our sanctification.  With our many conversations with non-Lutherans we understand that there&#8217;s a plague of poor teaching out there regarding sanctification and we think there are myriad ways to enter discussions to help teach the Lutheran position on the subject.  Our shirt is just one playful way to set up the conversation.</p>
<p>The shirt is highly offensive to some and incredibly comforting to others.  And if anyone reading this doesn&#8217;t know why a shirt saying &#8220;Weak On Sanctification&#8221; may be comforting, only endearing them to Lutheranism even more, I would invite you to actually talk to a few of them to find out why.  When was the last time you did so?</p>
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		<title>By: Darren</title>
		<link>http://www.newreformationpress.com/blog/2009/08/24/are-we-weak-on-sanctification-judge-for-yourself/#comment-507</link>
		<dc:creator>Darren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Aug 2009 17:12:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.newreformationpress.com/blog/?p=830#comment-507</guid>
		<description>Thanks for addressing the comments.  When I saw the shirt on Pr McCain&#039;s Facebook page yesterday I knew it was NRP and was a little surprised he would direct such venom in your direction.  The picture of the t-shirt next to textual description of antinomianism is a classic example of the association fallacy.

I can understand the criticism that the shirt, on its own, could present some confusion.  However, I&#039;m pretty certain most NRP readers/customers have the necessary understanding to use it as a starting point.  Living in Texas and frequently attending events where I am surrounded by evangelicals the shirt could be an interesting conversation starter.  

I&#039;ve been criticized for wearing my &quot;Pirate Christian Radio&quot; t-shirt too; after all pirates were vicious, brutal killers and theives, so how can there be a Pirate Christian radio station.

I typically enjoy Pr. McCain&#039;s posts, and quite frankly, I found the text of his post informative and correct.  I just don&#039;t think the association between the behavior and attitudes he describes apply to the shirt or NRP.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for addressing the comments.  When I saw the shirt on Pr McCain&#8217;s Facebook page yesterday I knew it was NRP and was a little surprised he would direct such venom in your direction.  The picture of the t-shirt next to textual description of antinomianism is a classic example of the association fallacy.</p>
<p>I can understand the criticism that the shirt, on its own, could present some confusion.  However, I&#8217;m pretty certain most NRP readers/customers have the necessary understanding to use it as a starting point.  Living in Texas and frequently attending events where I am surrounded by evangelicals the shirt could be an interesting conversation starter.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been criticized for wearing my &#8220;Pirate Christian Radio&#8221; t-shirt too; after all pirates were vicious, brutal killers and theives, so how can there be a Pirate Christian radio station.</p>
<p>I typically enjoy Pr. McCain&#8217;s posts, and quite frankly, I found the text of his post informative and correct.  I just don&#8217;t think the association between the behavior and attitudes he describes apply to the shirt or NRP.</p>
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